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Romanichal DNA

 



Donald Locke
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Oct 19, 2011, 1:26 AM

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Romanichal DNA Can't Post

I am Donald Locke, an avid researcher in to Romany DNA. I am descendant of the English Romanichal vista "clan" Lock family, one of many of England's oldest known Romanichal family's.

Through my genealogical / historical paper trail research, I have proven some of the early Colonial American's were in fact Romanichal's "Gypsies".
The Romanichal's are a related branch of the European Roma, but we are not Roma we are Romanichal , or Romani - chal.
Vista "clan" self identification is of utmost importance to each vista member, so to be politically correct, better to say Romany then Roma because not every Romany is Roma and vista self identifcation to each vista "clan" member is vitally important to our self identity.

Roma is but one of many vista identifications, and while most Romany are Roma descendants, each branch has their own vista identification.
So just to be politically correct and not to accidently insult my Romany cousins, I will refer to them as Romany not Roma.

The bulk of my Romany research is based on the English and Scottish Romanichal vista. I have focused much of my genealogical / historical paper trail research on the founder Romanichal population to England and Scotland, and their descendants in the USA.
I have not yet tested with this DNA company, but am considering it one day. I have Y DNA tested with a competitor though.

Through my paper trail research and genetic testing, I can clearly prove some of the Colonial American's of Maryland, Virginia, South Carolina were no doubts Colonial American Romanichal's!

Lock traces back to Calvert County Maryland 1728 to old Frederick County Virginia by 1755.

Bailey / Baillie traces back to Virginia 1680's with ties to Laurens County South Carolina, but he Laurens County SC Bailey lineage maybe a distantly related branch of the Virginia Bailey branch. But both Bailey / Baillie lineages hail from the Scottish Romanical's.

Campbell traces back to Arkansas 1800, but is most likely from Virginia or South Carolina as well.

Hite who is believed to be a case of an adoption, is also of Virginia.

Ingram traces back to the mid 1700's Pittsylvania County Virginia

Ruffin and Carter are Virginia slave plantation descendants.

What do all those people have in common? Lock, Bailey, Campbell, Hite, Ingram, Ruffin, Carter are all proven Y Haplo Group H1a male lineages from the Colonial era, who are clearly South Asians in origin! Our history books makes little to no mention of South Asian / Indians in the American Colonies, yet here I have the paper records proof and genetic evidence proof they clearly were in the American Colonies!
More importantly I am the researcher who discovered all the Y Haplo Group H1a Romanichal male lineages were found carrying the exact same null value marker mutation, marker 425 = 0. To date of those Romanichal male lineages in Y Haplo Group H1a who have tested to the 67 marker level, 100% were all found carrying this marker mutation, 425 = 0.

To date, not a single South Asian H1a male lineage of India, Sri Lanka, Nepal, parts of Pakistan, has been found carrying this null value marker mutation, it appears to be unique and exclusive to the Romany of Europe.

Further Y DNA testing is currently being done on the Romanichal's of England and Scotland and their descendants in the USA and Australia, has proven many more Y Haplo Group H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation being found in even more Romanichal family surnames.

Lock(e) of England is Y Haplo H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation ( 1 tested )
Lock(e) of USA is Y Haplo H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation ( 7 tested )
Smith of England is Y Haplo H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation ( 1 tested )
Ingram of USA is Y Haplo H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation ( 1 tested )
Bailey of USA is Y Haplo H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation ( 5 tested )
Boswell of England is Y Haplo H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation ( 1 tested )
Burton of England is Y Haplo H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation ( 1 tested )
Stanley of USA is Y Haplo H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation ( 1 tested )
Lee of Australia is Y Haplo H1a, not tested enough markers to know if he too carries the 425 = 0 marker mutation.
Campbell of USA is Y Haplo H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation ( 1 tested )
Ruffin of USA is Y Haplo H1a, not tested enough markers to know if he too carries the 425 = 0 marker mutation
Carter of USA is Y Haplo H1a, not tested enough markers to know if he too carries the 425 = 0 marker mutation

And those are just the Romanichal male lineages that I am aware of, there must be many more H1a Romanichal male lineages of many more surnames that goes unaccounted for.

I have recently been invited to join the Leicester University Romany DNA study, so myself along with many other Romanichal's will be participating for that genetc study as well.

Now there are also two other Romany Y DNA tested not of the Romanichal vista.
Vasko of Hungary to the USA is Y Haplo H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation ( 1 tested )
Markov of Bulgaria to England is Y Haplo H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation ( 1 tested )

So there is a precidence of H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation being found outside the Romanichal male population as well.
I now strongly believe most of the Romany H1a male lineages of Europe will also be found carrying the 425 = 0 marker mutation.

England and Scotland had created anti Gypsy laws, and those who were not hung, burned at the stake or jailed, were forcefully transported over seas as convict slave laborers, some of whom ended up in the American Colonies.

Here is one records reference that clearly speaks about this history.

Peter Faa
Gypsy.
Prisoner in Jedburgh Tolbooth. Banished at Jedburgh Scotland, 30 November 1714. Transported via Glasgow on a Greenock ship, master James Watson, by merchants Robert Buntine of Airdoch, James Lees and Charles Crawford to Virginia, 1 January 1715.

This is one of a great many English and Scottish records that very clearly spells it out, Romanichal's were forcefully transported to the American Colonies as convicts. So it is a no small wonder why the Y DNA tests are proving Romany ancestry, and a no small wonder why the autosomal tests are also showing Romany ancestry in Colonial American descendants!

It isn't like this history was not recorded, it was! It is that our historians have wrongly chosen to ignore this Romany history for our history books.
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see in the historical records that a great many Romanichal's of England and Scotland were forcefully banished to the American Colonies for life.
Me and my family are living proof of this Romanichal history! me and 6 of my Lock / Locke family members are all found carrying Y Haplo H1a with the
425 = 0 marker mutation, clearly proving my Romanichal ancestry. And I am a 65/67 genetic match to a Romichal Locke who still lives in England, and he too carries the 425 = 0 marker mutation.

So there can be zero doubts of my Lock family being of the English Romanichal Lock family tree, and I trace my Lock tree back to Maryland 1728, possibly as early as 1715 to New England.

There were far more Romanichal's in the American Colonies 1600's-1700's then Roma or of any other vista that I am certain of now. So those of you
with Colonial American ties who have a Romany blood tie showing up in your autosomal DNA tests, are more likely to be of Romanichal origins, not as likely to be of Roma origins.

England and Scotland both were very harsh on their Romanichal population. All it took was being caught hawking, selling their home made goods on the street corners with out a hawkers license and that could have caused one to be banished for 7 years to life punishment!
Add in the fact that England reportedly stole Romanichal children from their parents to be adopted out to gadje, "non Romany" family's and some of those Romanichal children may have been shipped over seas to be adopted, adding in many more unknown Romanichal's in the American Colonies.

Hite maybe one of those adopted Romanichal children to Virginia for all we know and Hite certainly is not a genetic match to any of the Hite, Hiatt, Hyatt's of Virginia.

The Ingram's of Pittsylvania County Virginia whom I am directly related to, are a closer genetic match to the Romanichal Smith's of England.
The Lock's of England and USA are a closer genetic match to the Boswell and Burton family's, Burton is a perfect 67/67 genetic match to the Locke in England and is a 65/67 genetic match to me. So Lock and Burton on a genetic level are a close genetic match to one another.

How many more Haplo H1a Romanichal male lineages of many more surnames will be identified, we don't know. But I anticipate many more H1a male lineages being identified through the Leicester Universty Romany DNA study.
One mt DNA Haplo M5a1 Romanichal female lineage has been recently identified as well, and M5a1 is being hailed as another South Asian female Haplo Group that is also being found amongst most of the Romany vista's "clans" of Europe.

For you with Romany hits in your autosomal tests, especially you with direct ties to Virginia, Maryland, South Carolina, and possibly New York and Pennsylvania, North Carolina, i'd love to be talking to you about your family trees. I have a rather long list of Romanichal family surnames of England and Scotland that has been compiled by me through the many Romany Gypsy books, genealogical paper records, and personal insight from many Romanichal's fmaily trees.

The historians virtually ignore the forced 1600' - 1700's Romanichal convict migration to the American Colonies and only openly acknowledge the 1850-1900's Romany migration, which is a bit insulting really because there were just as many if not more Romanichal's who were transported then of those who willingly migrated.


cbk0875
Novice

Oct 19, 2011, 7:59 AM

Post #2 of 12 (42792 views)
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Re: [Donald Locke] Romanichal DNA [In reply to] Can't Post

I am very interested in this. My ggggreat grandmother was Elizabeth Carolyn Locke b. 1818 of Bladen Co. NC., her parents were Sarah Payne and David Locke b. 1775 bladen co. NC. Davids mother (Elizabeth) and father Thomas Locke b. 1758 Bladen co. NC. Thomas Father (the farthest back I can find) was William Locke (b. abt. 1735 Bladen Co. NC). I would appreciate it if you would let me know if you had any information on this branch of the Lockes and if they were Romanichal.

Charles Kelly


Donald Locke
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Oct 19, 2011, 6:47 PM

Post #3 of 12 (42775 views)
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Re: [cbk0875] Romanichal DNA [In reply to] Can't Post

The Bladen County NC Lock's are unrelated to me, and are not a genetic match to me.
Dr. Peacock " deceased" wrote a book on the descendants of Leonard Lock of Bladen County NC.

There are over 30 unrelated Lock / Locke lineages of England and the USA, only one of which is Romanichal in origin.


cbk0875
Novice

Oct 19, 2011, 8:18 PM

Post #4 of 12 (42771 views)
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Re: [Donald Locke] Romanichal DNA [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you know the name of Dr. Peacock's book?


Donald Locke
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Oct 19, 2011, 9:22 PM

Post #5 of 12 (42768 views)
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Re: [cbk0875] Romanichal DNA [In reply to] Can't Post

Descendants of Leonard Lock is the name of the title, he self published and sold the book his self, not sure if it is available now that he is deceased. It is the nicest hard back genealogy book I have ever seen. I am in direct contact with one of Leonard Lock's descendants.


cbk0875
Novice

Oct 20, 2011, 8:58 PM

Post #6 of 12 (42687 views)
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Re: [Donald Locke] Romanichal DNA [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks so much for this information!

Charles


Shari
Novice / Moderator

Oct 20, 2011, 9:02 PM

Post #7 of 12 (42686 views)
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Re: [Donald Locke] Romanichal DNA [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Don,
It's great to have someone well versed in knowledge about Romany ancestry and history to take part in our forum. We have needed someone like you to give us a huge boost in Romany information. I believe as you do that the Romany need accurate descriptions of their history and "GOOD PRESS." They are good people who have often been dragged down by bad press, to say the least. Thanks so much!!

Shari


(This post was edited by Shari on Oct 21, 2011, 5:37 PM)


Donald Locke
Novice

Oct 21, 2011, 2:01 AM

Post #8 of 12 (42670 views)
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Re: [Shari] Romanichal DNA [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't believe everything you read in the press, especially the UK press.


ctgypsy62
New User

Oct 21, 2011, 5:37 AM

Post #9 of 12 (42649 views)
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Re: [Donald Locke] Romanichal DNA [In reply to] Can't Post

Don - I signed up :)


cbk0875
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Oct 21, 2011, 8:36 AM

Post #10 of 12 (42625 views)
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Re: [ctgypsy62] Romanichal DNA [In reply to] Can't Post

This might be an odd question. But on the autosomal tests does it specifically state Roma? Because I show both an northern india match and two separate Romanian matches in addition to Yemeni and Afgan.


ctgypsy62
New User

Oct 23, 2011, 8:57 PM

Post #11 of 12 (42418 views)
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Re: [cbk0875] Romanichal DNA [In reply to] Can't Post

No - the testing doesn't show up as Rroma. What you need to look for is the percentage of South Asian (India). Bear in mind that Indian men do not have a great percentage of "Asian" in their ancestry painting either. Looking for a percentage and finding one even as low as 1% can indicate Gypsy heritage if you're sure you have no other South Asian ancestry; just don't expect to find a major percentage, we've been out of India way too long for that to happen.


cbk0875
Novice

Oct 23, 2011, 9:31 PM

Post #12 of 12 (42413 views)
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Re: [ctgypsy62] Romanichal DNA [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks!!

Charles

 
 


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