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Melungeon were Portuguese

Moderators: dpyates, jakayj, suelevin1, dnacommunities, teresapy, D J Thornton

rdegnen
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:07 pm

Melungeon were Portuguese

Postby rdegnen » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:47 pm


jakayj
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:46 pm

Re: Melungeon were Portuguese

Postby jakayj » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:58 pm

Thanks for posting this very informative information. - Jakay

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dpyates
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:17 pm

Re: Melungeon were Portuguese (and Portuguese Jewish)

Postby dpyates » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:57 pm

Thanks, Robert for the reference to Joanne Pezzulo's blog about Melungeons being Portuguese. Not to split hairs, but Melungeons could refer to non-Portuguese families, too, while Portuguese could refer to Jews. It was a virtual synonym for Jew in the 17-18 cents. You can find explicit usage like that in old dictionaries and colonial records. Many Portuguese Jewish families adopted names like Porter, Portal and Portugall. They liked girls first names that started with the sound Lu- (to remind them of roots in Lusitania, the classical name of Portugal). Common names were Lucinda, Louise, Lucille and Lucretia. Bizarre, inventive forms like Louhanna (the Blevins and Bolling families) and Lucinderella (the Cooper family) and Luta Mae (my wife’s Box family, originally Fox) were known to occur. A list from my genealogy research is: Lou Ann, Lou Ella, Lou Nell, Loudella, Loudie Bell, Louisa, Louisa Ann, Louise, Louisiana, Louiza, Louverna, Louvice, Louvina, Lovice, Lovida, Lovie, Lovine, Luallan, Lucetta, Lucia, Lucille, Lucina, Lucinda, Lucretia, Lucy, Luida, Lula, Lula Mae, Luna , Lura, Lurena, Luticia, Luvernia and Luvina.
Donald N. Yates, Ph.D.
Principal Investigator, http://dnaconsultants.com

christopherswink8
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:16 pm

Re: Melungeon were Portuguese

Postby christopherswink8 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:26 pm

Thank you for posting this. After many many years of being told I was “German” Palatine “Black German” descent, I now know that to not be the truth. I am pretty certain my direct male line is of Portuduese Azores descent. Especially now considering the Amazing results obtained from DNA Consultants. However I can not trace my Swink surname out of Rowna, NC 1741. My family researchers say we are of the Schwenks of PA by way of Palatinate. But I have taked to Schwenks and they have a haplogroup of I. Myself and many other Swinks have haplogroup R-M269. Therefore in no way can we be “German”. They tell me to disregard my 12 and 25 marker matches from Brazil, Mexico and Portugal. They say they are “false” matches. I know I am related to those matches of “Hispanic” “Latin” origins.

jodyb
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu May 27, 2021 5:42 pm

Re: Melungeon were Portuguese

Postby jodyb » Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:06 pm

It is very interesting to me to find out about the Lu* female names. My 3rd Great Grandmother is the Cherokee line I have been tracking. Her name was Lucinda Reed (Reid) born 1859 in Tennessee. Then married names, married three times; Allen, Hines, Smith. Two cousins contacted me, Alvin Allen and my grandmother maiden name Hine's cousin's granddaughter, my generation through different DNA sites plus a Hine's genealogist, my father's second cousin. I have the surnames of my 7th Great Grandfather Spanish ancestor, Juan don Carlos arriving around early 1700s, died in British Colony, Virginia 1757; 6th GG Archelaus Don Carlos, 1734–1798, b. New Kent County, d. Virginia; skipping to 4th GG Mary Lane (Polly) Don Carlos 1800–1863, b. Virginia, United States of America, d. Tennessee. That is the non-Native blood side as far as I know. I ordered the Cherokee test but go the Chippewa as #1 then #2 as Cherokee. Mary Land Don Carlos married my 4th GG Isaac Bright Hines, 1795–1872, b. Tennessee, d.Knox, Tennessee. Not until my 2nd GG Robert Henry Hines Jr., 1844–1898, b. Marion County, Tennessee, d. Elmo, Independence, Arkansas does my 2nd GG Louisa Reed, Louisa Reed, 1857–1908, b. Benton, Tennessee, d. Elmo, Independence County, Arkansas, does my Cherokee line as I know it from my Grandmother Hines B. come into my Spanish (Iberian, whatever the real case may be) blood line as far as I know. And, the Reed line is hazy at best.

My distant half cousin Alvin Allen tested 1% Native American at Ancestry dot com. My father's half sister's grandchildren show some Native American. I am not certain about their own grandparent's DNA. Neither are they.

My Grandma (maiden name) Hines is the only blood line I am not certain. Her other grandmother was named Fanny Gains. There are only records of marriage and childbirth of my grandmother's mother then nothing. She disappears.

According to family and distant elders of family Louisa Reed's parents walked the Trail of Tears. I can a trail of letters that seem to be written, or dictated as she could not read nor write, letters to the Indian Affairs Bureau. But her name Reed was misfiled into a Reid file that is another family altogether. So, she seems to slip into a void of paper work at the Eastern Band. Fanny Gains, all I can find is Fanny Goins. I cannot match her extended relatives because I do not have them on my family tree.

My Cartwright mother is Mayflower and Colonial British, French then Swedish frontier. The only possible Native American is my 8th GG Edward Cartwright Sr., 1640–1705, possibly b. Dittisham, South Hams District, Devon, Briton, d. Pocomo, Nantucket, Massachusetts, British Colony. Edward Cartwright married a woman named Elizabeth Trott. There is a record that her father o grandfather Symon Trott was accused of sinning with a Native American woman. There was a trial in Boston. My mother's sister Peggy, a proper Colonialist who cannot fathom the possibility of Symon Trott marrying a Native American has her version. My mother who married a Scots Irish Cherokee Filipino rather prefers the Native American Story. But that is 1668. It is hard to prove one way or another unless the the Autosomal Alleles can actually provide more enlightenment. My (maiden name) Cartwright mother's brother and other various cousins married into Cherokee blood lines, not direct of course but an affinity with Cherokee for some reason.


"The Maine Historical Society collections state that "Symon Trott, freeman of Massachusetts, lived at Cape Porpoise and that he was sworn in at Wells, Maine".It is also stated that a petition dated April 28, 1668 shows Simon Trote at Cape Porpoise.Tradition has it that he married an Indian woman named Elizabeth Goody.*Whether it was he, or Elizabeth Trott's maternal grandfather, Stephen Batson, who married the Indian woman, has not been definitely established. It is of record, however, in the early court annals of the province of Maine that one Elizabeth, wife of Simon Trott, was indicted for infidelity and sent to Boston for trial. In passing, it might be said that it was not considered a particularly serious offense for man to be caught cheating in those days, but women were supposed to answer with the death penalty.Maine had only justice courts at that time and a serious offense such as this had to be tried in a court of competent jurisdiction, the nearest being in Boston.This compiler has made no attempt to search the early Boston court records to see whether fair Elizabeth was executed or not, preferring to let the ghost of an ancient grandma repose in peace.Of the children of Simon and Elizabeth Trott, there is record of one son, John Trott, Sr."
My Aunt: https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/b/l/i/Peg ... -0032.html


My Cartwright side is otherwise English, other than my grandfather Cartwright being half Canadian French. My #1 Chippewa could come from the Cartwright side. It was a surprise since I had a best friend in high school who's mother is Chippewa. So, there is my Spanish or Iberian line coming into British Colony. My 2nd GG Fanny Gains remains a mystery as does Elizabeth Trott's Indian vs. British Colony blood lines. The Spanish (Iberian, etc) might be the only entry I can account. But I do get 5% Ashkenazi at MyHeritage. That is possible to come from the Iberian. My father''s father is from Asia, the jungles of Asia. There is zero chance of any European, Jewish, Native American.

Melungeon itself must be coming from my Grandmother Hines who's Trail of Tears Cherokee side is from Tennessee as well as Iberian.

I wrote all the details because I have more details than most people. Maybe some other people have some more details. That would be great.

Best Regards,
Jodyb



jakayj
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:46 pm

Re: Melungeon were Portuguese

Postby jakayj » Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:55 pm

Thank you for posting these historical documents. Fascinating.

Jakay


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