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Royal dna

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D J Thornton
Posts: 321
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:58 am

Royal dna

Postby D J Thornton » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:55 am

Royal DNA

http://www.surnamedna.com/?articles=y-d ... h-monarchy

In the past 1,086 years since Aethelstan became the first King of England, there have been nine (9) sustained Y-DNA dynasties. Three (3) of these lineages have publically available Y-DNA characterizations that anyone can compare themselves to with a commercial genetic genealogy test. Two (2) of the royal dynasties have living Y-DNA descendants but test results have not been published. The remaining four (4) lineages are unlikely to have genealogically-identifiable living descendants. Thus aDNA testing of royal remains will be needed in order to identify their characteristics and draw new genealogical and historical insights.

Geographically, only one (1) of these dynasties (Wessex) originates in England before the 10th century and another in Wales. Six (6) of these dynasties converge on Germany and Denmark (and Wessex would make a seventh if one considers its origins prior to the 7th century). Two (2) more of the dynasties originate in France. Culturally, two (2) of these dynasties are Celtic in origin, two (2) French, and five (5) Germanic.

Prince Phillip dynasty related to
Denmark , Germany Tsar of Russia Nicholas II
Matrilineal cousin to Tzar wife

4. Stuart

The Stuart line of monarchs were among the most controversial in their own time. Although their matriarch, Mary Queen of Scots (1542-1567), was beheaded, her son King James I (1566-1625) unified the Scottish and English crowns in 1603. Despite the English Civil War and a twelve-year interregnum, a total of six (6) monarchs were crowned from the paternity of Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley of Scotland (1545-1567). This Y-DNA linage can be traced further back to Robert II of Scotland (1316-1390), Walter FitzAlan (1106-1177) and Alan FitzFlaad (1070-1114) who came from Brittany, France as a knight in Norman service. Because Brittany was settled (and named) by displaced Celts from Britain in the 5th century, this lineage is thought to be anciently Celtic.

Although the Stuart line of British monarchs ended with the death of Queen Anne in 1714, there are several living Dukes and other Peers who are patrilinealy descended from King Charles II (1630-1685).12 Thus, the Stuarts could easily return to the throne if a female Mountbatten heiress were to marry a Stuart male in the future. The recent birth of a male Prince Cambridge, however, makes the possibility of returning a Stuart to the throne unlikely for the 21st century.

Thanks to an energetic DNA project12and the participation of many Stuart / Stewart descendants, the Stuart Y-DNA signature is the best-studied of all the British monarchs. Figures 3 and 5 include test result highlights for the Stuarts based on an identified ducal descendant of King Charles II.20 Their Y-DNA is characterized as part of haplogroup R1b-L21 with the key SNP mutation L745. This R1b-L21 result is consistent with the Celtic attribution of the Stuart’s 11th century patriarch.

5. The Tudors

The Tudors are best known for King Henry VIII (1491-1547) and his daughter, Queen Elizabeth I (1533-1603). This dynasty provided five (5) English monarchs and is the only royal male line attributed to Celtic Wales. Henry VIII’s father, Henry Tudor (1457-1509), began the dynasty in 1485 by winning the crown in battle for the Lancastrians and closing the War of the Roses by marrying Elizabeth of York (1465-1503). Henry Tudor’s paternal ancestors are believed to descend from Ednyfed Fychan (1170-1246) of Wales.16

A Tudor Y-DNA signature has not been identified and there are no documented descendants after the 17th century. If a signature can be identified, however, there may be numerous living matches because the ‘Tudor’ surname is still common where the royal Tudors originated on the Isle of Angelsey in Wales. There is at least one person of Welsh descent and surname who claims paternal descent from Henry VIII’s ancestor, Ednyfed Fychan. It is also reputed that Mary Boleyn’s first son, Henry Carey (1526-1596), was an illegitimate son of Henry VIII and may have had descendants that survived but faded from historical records. Carey’s remains lie in Westminster Abbey while Henry VIII’s remains lie in St George’s Chapel at Windsor Castle so the potential for aDNA to reveal this Y-DNA signature is tantalizing.

6. Plantagenets

The Plantagenets are perhaps best known for King Edward I [Longshanks] (1239-1307) as portrayed in the movie Braveheart (1995). The Plantagenets are sometimes subdivided into the Lancastrian and Yorkist factions who fought the bloody War of the Roses over succession. But all of the fourteen (14) monarchs of this group were paternally descended from King Henry II (1133-1189) who was born in France and brought Ireland and England under the same crown. Although his mother was a granddaughter of William the Conqueror (1028-1087) and daughter of English King Henry I (1068-1135), Henry II’s Y-DNA came from his father Count Geoffrey V of Anjou (1113-1151) and further back from Geoffrey Ferole II, Count of Gastinois, France (1000-1046).

Plantagenet DNA characterization has been in the news this past year with an announcement of findings (without data) that MtDNA evidence supports the identification of a body discovered in Leicestershire as being the remains King Richard III (1452-1485).9 Researchers have identified four (4) surviving male descendants of Henry Somerset, 5th Duke of Beaufort (1744-1803) who should be Y-DNA matches for Richard III and all Plantagenet kings. Unfortunately, those results have not been published and were refused for this paper

Speculative Haplogrouping of Untested Dynasties. Based on the royal test results available, the overall Y-DNA results from Europe, and the geographical convergence of many of these lineages on Denmark and Germany, it is hypothesized that the Normandy, Wessex, and Knýtlinga dynasties will be found to come from the R1b-U106 haplogroup. The Tudor line is likely to resemble the Stuart line and come from haplogroup R1b-L21. The Plantagenets are a bit more difficult to predict as some speculate that they are related to the Carpetian kings of France and descended from Roman citizens in the haplogroup J2 or G2. However, early sources attribute them as Germanic Franks13 and thus more likely to be another branch of R1b-U106.

7. House of Normandy

The House of Normandy was seated with the successful invasion of England in 1066 by William I [the Conqueror] (1028-1087). This dynasty introduced French language and martial skills into the Anglo-Saxon culture of England. To put it in modern terms, these Normans were the high tech gurus of the 11th century with innovations like the Domesday Book, elaborate castles, and combined-arms warfare. Yet for all the territorial gains of William the Conqueror, his dynasty did not last long – only three (3) monarchs over 69 years. William’s Y-DNA came from his Viking ancestor Robert I [Rollo] (846-931) who was probably born in Denmark and became Duke of Normandy, France in about the year 900.

There are no patrilineal descendants of William the Conqueror who survived past the 12th century.16 Nor are there any modern DNA test results that have been linked to his paternal ancestors. William I and Henry I were both buried in abbeys but their remains were destroyed in subsequent centuries. There may be a chance for an aDNA test, however, as some of the bones of William II (1056-1100) are believed to be in a mortuary chest in Winchester Cathedral.

Aethelstan (893-939) was the first person since Roman times to unify all of England under one king in the year 927. While it is common today to refer to persons from the British Isles as ‘Anglo-Saxons’, it has actually been 947 years since the last true Anglo-Saxon king, Harold Godwinson (1022-1066), was defeated by William the Conqueror. From Aethelstan to Godwinson, the ‘West Saxon’ or Wessex dynasty provided a total of ten (10) rulers from the Y-DNA lineage of Egbert, King of Wessex (770 – 839) who was born in what is today Oxfordshire, England. Today’s English language derives principally from Wessex ancestors who came to Britain from northern Germany between the 4th and 8th centuries.

Although Harold Godwinson perished, there were likely fourteen (14) or more sons or nephews carrying the Godwinson Y-DNA living in the year 1081. However, these individuals receded from history and we simply don’t know how to identify any Wessex Y-DNA carriers from traditional genealogy. Since Harold’s body is believed to be buried near the battlefield of Hastings, aDNA may yet enable comparison of the Wessex dynasty with living individuals who have been tested. Bones of earlier Wessex Kings are claimed to be inside Winchester Cathedral as well. There is also a new effort to examine remains that might belong to King Alfred the Great (849-899) at Hyde Abbey, Winchester.

Viking forces operated in England from 793 to 1075 with frequent battles against the House of Wessex. A Viking-based dynasty called Knýtlinga was established in 1013 and is best known for King Canute (985-1035) who subdued the Anglo-Saxons; coined his own money; and also ruled over Denmark, Norway, and parts of Sweden. However, Canute’s sons all died within seven years of their father so that power in England was reclaimed by the Anglo-Saxons of Wessex.

Canute’s Y-DNA line came from Harthacnu I, King of Denmark (880-936). Although Harthacnu I’s descendants continued to serve as members of Scandanavian royal families, as far as we can tell, this Y-DNA line ‘daughtered-out‘ with no patrilineal descendants that can be tested today. Thus, aDNA is the only means currently feasible for identifying this Y-DNA lineage. There is one identified source, however, as the bones of Canute himself are said to be preserved in Winchester Cathedral.

D J Thornton
Posts: 321
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:58 am

Re: Royal dna

Postby D J Thornton » Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:02 pm

Princess Diana mtdna


A wonderful story about Theodore Forbes and love in British India and summary below and how one individual DNA can be found several generations back

Alexander became so homesick for Surat, his mother and his little sister that the Forbes family allowed and no doubt paid for him to return to India. Apparently this happened only a short time after the six year-old’s arrival in Aberdeenshire. The contrast between Surat and Boyndlie can only be imagined. Many years later a bundle of letters was found. Written not in English but probably in Gujerati, they had been sent by Eliza to the daughter she was destined never to see again. Perhaps they carried news to Scotland of Katharine’s brother and little sister. They also inherited the DNA of their mother, and if the third child was indeed a daughter, then it may have been passed down the generations in India. And in Britain, there is no doubt that shared mtDNA lived on in Katharine Forbes and her descendants.

In the early 19th century and on into the Victorian age, illegitimacy was perhaps less of a stigma in the fermtouns of Scotland than it might have been in the genteel drawing rooms of the cities. Much more of a problem would have been the taint of ‘coloured blood’. But since Katharine’s father had died and her mother remained thousands of miles away in India, it may be that Eliza Kewark’s ethnicity was not an immediate difficulty. Later, she was said to have been an Armenian, perhaps because Kewark could be parlayed into Kevork, an Armenian surname. Nevertheless, Eliza’s existence was not forgotten or expunged from the family tree. Perhaps that was Katharine’s doing, a stubborn unwillingness to deny her mother, the woman who had born and raised her for eight years in Surat. It is impossible to do more than guess at what was said and what was not.

In any event, Theodore and Eliza’s daughter, by this time known as Kitty, married James Crombie in Aberdeen. She was 25 years old. Her family may have remained pillars of the Scottish middle classes had Katharine’s great-granddaughter, Ruth, not married into the aristocracy. Her husband was Maurice Burke Roche, 4th Baron Fermoy, an Irish peer. Ruth became a longstanding member of the household of Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother. In 1954 her daughter, Frances, married Edward, Viscount Althorp (later Earl Spencer) and in 1961 gave birth to a daughter, Diana Spencer. A year after her marriage to Prince Charles in 1981, she in turn gave birth to a son, Prince William. In the direct female line, Eliza Kewark’s mitochondrial DNA had been passed down to the heir second in line to the throne of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

How is it possible to be certain of this? Mitochondrial DNA is passed down the motherline to all children. Two living direct descendants of Eliza Kewark have been found and by reading the sequence of their mtDNA, our geneticists discovered not only that it matched but that it also belonged to a haplogroup called R30b. Further research confirmed unequivocally that this is Eliza Kewark’s haplogroup. A comparison run through databases of the DNA of more than 65,000 individuals from around the world showed that R30b is very rare and very Indian. Only 14 examples have been reported and 13 of these were Indian, with one in Nepal. To add to this research, it is important to note that the other related branches of R30b, that is R30a and R30, are also entirely South Asian in origin. This confirms beyond doubt that the mtDNA of Eliza Kewark was of Indian heritage.

R30b is rare even in India where only approximately 0.3% of people carry the lineage. And what Eliza passed down to Princess Diana, her other living descendants and to Prince William is even rarer. Within the haplogroup of R30b, an exact match to her sequence has yet to be found outside of her descendants. But Prince William, and Prince Harry, who also carries it, will not be able to pass on their extremely rare Indian mtDNA to their children. They will in turn inherit whatever their mothers’ mtDNA happens to be.

For yet more corroboration, scientists used an independent type of genetic evidence. By reading over 700,000 markers scattered across the genome of Princess Diana’s matrilineal cousins, and comparing findings to a global database of samples, it is possible to estimate the proportions of continental-level ancestry for an individual. For example, someone with a father from Ireland and a mother from Nigeria would be 50% sub-Saharan African and 50% European, or someone with three English grandparents and one from China would be approximately 20% to 30% East Asian. The proportions inherited from ancestors who lived longer ago are lower and also variable. Eliza Kewark’s two descendants are estimated to be pabout 0.3% and 0.8% South Asian, with three blocks of South Asian DNA in each of their genomes. All of the rest is of European origin.

It is therefore very likely that in addition to his mtDNA, Prince William has not only inherited a small proportion of Indian DNA from Eliza Kewark but that his heirs will also carry it.

http://dnatestingchoice.com/news/2014-0 ... -years-ago


D J Thornton
Posts: 321
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:58 am

Re: Royal dna

Postby D J Thornton » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:24 pm

According to American genealogist Gary Boyd Roberts, an expert on royal descent, most Americans with significant New England Yankee, Mid-Atlantic Quaker, or Southern planter ancestry are descended from medieval kings, especially those of England, Scotland, and France. William Addams Reitwiesner documented many U.S. descendants of Renaissance and modern monarchs. Some Americans may have royal descents through German immigrants who had an illegitimate descent from German royalty.

Due to primogeniture, many colonists of high social status were younger children of English aristocratic families who came to America looking for land because, given their birth order, they could not inherit. Many of these immigrants initially enjoyed high standing where they settled. They could often claim royal descent through a female line or illegitimate descent. Some Americans descend from these 17th-century British colonists who had royal descent. There were at least 650 colonists with traceable royal ancestry,[11][12] and 387 left descendants in America (almost always numbering many thousands, and some as many as one million).[11] These colonists with royal descent settled in every state, but a large majority lived in Massachusetts or Virginia.[11] Several families which settled in those states, over the two hundred years or more since the colonial land grants, intertwined their branches to the point that almost everyone was somehow related to everyone else. One writer observed, "like a tangle of fish hooks".
https://herebedragons.weebly.com/coloni ... rants.html

Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:32 pm

Re: Royal dna

Postby emmdee2 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:19 am

Hello DJ.

Don't know if it is true but this from my mom's side Veatch/Veitch supposed to have a way back royal connection.


The part of James 'The Sheriff" seems true and a marker in Maryland called Veitch's Cove as he was an early settler.
https://www.geni.com/people/James-The-S ... 6367825165[/url]

He was my 8th great grandfather and the in his line name sake James Veatch Jr (5th great grandfather) and Elias (4th Great Grandfather) both fought in the Revolutionary War. Supposedly the family built a castle in Scotland in the mid 1200's Dawyck Castle but it was torn down 20 or 30 years ago and just a museum/botanical garden there now. But Veatch/Veitch were supposed to have came to Scotland at some point from France and the name is related to the French word for cow (vache) and there is some legend about them saving the kings cows and the coat of arms has cows. :lol:

We were all sorts of poor so didn't get any benefits from that royal connection. Also, your test showed me as weak on Scottish and high on French so I think perhaps the name is French afterall. :D

And found this wonderful article on him too: https://www.bayjournal.com/article/long_arm_of_the_law_reaches_back_to_marylands_colonial_days

Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:32 pm

Re: Royal dna

Postby emmdee2 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:36 am

And now I see Elias Amos Veatch as named in Dr. Yates book as a possible crypto Jew in Maryland in the Jews and Muslims in British Colonial America ... Not sure other than perhaps Elias not a typical name? He is my 4th Great Grandfather and if you asked me which line is NOT Jewish would have said this one, lol as that line they go back to Scotland and Norman history there. The name is variant of French for cow or cattle or someone who cares for cattle, similar to Vaca/Baca in the Spanish. I saw that listed as possible Crypto Jewish in one of the books as well. Will keep reading up on it and I recommended When Scotland was Jewish to a friend who though Scottish looks Jewish.


D J Thornton
Posts: 321
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:58 am

Re: Royal dna

Postby D J Thornton » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:36 am

Very interesting.

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