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Mexican/Central/So.American Great-grandparents

Moderators: dpyates, jakayj, suelevin1, dnacommunities, teresapy

Shari
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:54 pm

Mexican/Central/So.American Great-grandparents

Postby Shari » Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:35 pm

Before my mother and I took our DNA tests, we assumed our ancestors were European, mostly from the British Isles, and maybe one Canadian Indian great...grandmother.

What a great surprise to find my first three Fingerprint Plus Mega Population ranks to be Iberian American, American Indian and Iberian. (The last six are Northern European, European American, Central Asian, East European, Central European and Mediterranean European.)

My list showed 38 of 50 World Population Matches to be Hispanic! My mother’s test showed 20 Hispanic, but now I know that Dad’s DNA contributed considerably, too. He did not take a test. 



My paternal grandmother and a great-grandmother were both most likely the major contributors to the large amount of the Mexican and Central and South American DNA. They were my dad’s mother and a grandmother from different lines.

Best guess is that my dad’s mother had the highest ranking numbers. If so, she represents the #1 Mega Populations ranking - “Iberian American.” I never knew her since she died before I was born but I heard she was a wonderful mother to her eight children.

I believe Dad’s paternal grandmother contributed the Mexican - Nuevo Leon (rank 30) and Mexican - Northeastern - Metizo (rank 31) since my second cousin (who took the Native American Fingerprint Plus test) has about the same rank numbers of these as I do. She was great-grandmother to both my cousin and me.

Most of my mother’s 20 Hispanic DNA rankings were from her grandparents who emigrated from the Shetland Islands, Scotland to the U.S. in the mid-1880s. They had no Native American DNA. They contributed to the California part (rank 19) of my U.S. Hispanic DNA. I’m sure their DNA matched in all areas of the Americas as well. Others of Mom’s Hispanic DNA came from England and Ireland.

I’ve recorded many ancestor surnames as far back as the 1600s but none that were Mexican or Hispanic despite some high rankings. I have no idea how to find these ancestors’ surnames or histories even with the help of Ancestry.com.

Does anyone else have unknown Mexican... ancestors? Is there a good source for learning how to search for those who migrated into the southern U.S. in the 1800s?

DETAILS for anyone interested:

I have 11 U. S. Hispanic rankings including Minnesota ranks 4, 5, and 9; North Carolina 6; U.S. 13, 22, 42; Southwestern U.S. 15; California 19; Michigan 28.

I also have 4 Mexican - Hildalgo - Metztitlan 3; Chihuahua (North Central) 18; Nuevo Leon 30; Northeastern - Mestizo 31;

And I have 22 Central and South America - Columbian 2, 25, 26, 40, 41, 50; Costa Rican 7, 8; Guatemalan 10; Ecuadorian 12, 29; Argentinian 14, 27, 35, 36; El Salvadoran 16, 17; Paraguayan 23), Brazilian Amazonian 32, 33; Bolivian 37; and Venezuelan - Maracaibo 38.


And finally - 1 Iberian Peninsula - Catalans (rank 49).

These Hispanic ancestors had ancient Jewish ancestry. After reading, WHEN SCOTLAND WAS JEWISH; and JEWS AND MUSLIMS IN BRITISH COLONIAL AMERICA, I understood my DNA test findings much better. These books give the history of the many who migrated to the British Isles from Iberia and then, later on, emigrated to North America. Many of my mother’s ancestors’ surnames in Scotland were included in the first book and many of my Dad’s were in the second book. In earlier centuries there were also heavy migrations from Iberia directly to Central and South America.

Most of our ancient great-grandparents of different lines migrated first from Iberia to the British Isles and later on to the U.S. southeastern states, but my DNA test also indicates that some of our ancient ancestors were indeed from areas in Mexico, Central and South America. Best guess, as noted, is that these were from two of my dad’s lines living in southwestern states - his mother and his paternal grandmother - but also from my Scottish great-grandparents (Scotland > Colorado > California.)

Native Americans intermarried with ancestors throughout the Americas. My DNA test reveals Native American DNA not only from North America, but from Mexico, Central and South America.

Besides my Native American DNA from the “Americas,” my test lists 7 Native American ranks, mostly from Canadian tribes (from my mother), but there is also Minnesota Native American, 43, 46, and 47, probably from Dad’s mother (my grandmother). Rank 11 is Native American - Choles - Chiapas, Mexico (Mayan), probably also from Dad’s mother. A later test revealed my mother’s Cherokee, 25 for her.

Raven
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:31 am

Re: Mexican/Central/So.American Great-grandparents

Postby Raven » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:06 am

Hi Shari. I have had a similar experience. I had my mother tested and based on the results. It seems that my father contributed Mexican Central American DNA. Family history on my father's side claims that they were from Germany but it seems that they had Spanish Jewish ancestry. I matched with some of my distant cousins on my dad's side on ancestry.com and they also have Iberian and Jewish results. I haven't been able to find out much more info though and no one seems to know anything. Some of their surnames were Pfeifer Wiedor and Retzbach. I was able to locate some information about Hispanic Jews named Pfeifer that lived in Argentina but no information as to if they are our relatives. T

Shari
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:54 pm

Re: Mexican/Central/So.American Great-grandparents

Postby Shari » Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:01 pm

Hi Raven,
I suppose some of your ancestors might have migrated from Iberia to Germany, then on to Mexico - Central America. You might want to read my post in the Jewish forum - “Berber Jewish Ancestry.” This is my take on our Jewish ancestors’ migration from Morocco > Iberia > Scotland. Your ancestors might have taken this route, too. Your dad might have Berber Jewish DNA. Do you know about when they might have emigrated from Germany to Mexico?

Raven
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:31 am

Re: Mexican/Central/So.American Great-grandparents

Postby Raven » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:02 pm

Hi Shari,

Thanks for letting me know about your post. I will definitely check it out. According to all the info I have they came straight from Germany to the US in the 1800's. What also surprises me is that I received the lake Baikal gene from my dad as my mother did not receive it nor did she receive Belem Amazonians which I did. The only thing that I could think of is that the family tree is incorrect.

Shari
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:54 pm

Re: Mexican/Central/So.American Great-grandparents

Postby Shari » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:49 pm

Raven, since they came from Germany to the U.S. in the 1800s (Ashkenazi?), someone in this ancestor line could have married into a line contributing Mexican, Central American DNA (Sephardic?) AFTER your German ancestors came to live in the U.S. Early ancestors from the line contributing Mexican, Central American DNA could have migrated from Mexico into the U.S. at some time before marrying into your German Jewish line in the U.S. Just a guess... You’re in the same place as I am with ancestor lines in the U.S. and no Hispanic-Mexican surnames to research. Not being able to find our Mexican... ancestors is frustrating!

Raven
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:31 am

Re: Mexican/Central/So.American Great-grandparents

Postby Raven » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:43 pm

Hi Shari,

I've done some more research and just about all of my German relatives came from Baden Germany. I've looked into this further and found several articles about a large number of Spanish Jews that lived in Baden and then moved around a lot. I'm thinking that my Mexican matches are probably just a combination of the Spanish Jewish and the Native American. I do have an ancestor from the US that her parents were unknown though so I still don't have all of the answers.

Shari
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:54 pm

Re: Mexican/Central/So.American Great-grandparents

Postby Shari » Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:32 pm

Hi Raven,
Since many and maybe most of my dad’s ancestors lived in the southern states, I can say that most likely our Mexican DNA was from at least one who was truly Mexican. Best guess, it was Dad’s mother and certain of her ancestors.

I really don’t know if Mexican - Central American DNA can show up on a person’s test unless it’s actually Mexican - Central American DNA, but maybe it is a match to the Spanish Jewish DNA. This is a question you might want to ask an expert at DNA Consultants.

Shari
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:54 pm

Re: Mexican/Central/So.American Great-grandparents

Postby Shari » Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:10 pm

It’s been almost three years since I posted the above on July 10, 2016, “Mexican/Central/So.American Great-grandparents.” I was very confused by my Fingerprint Plus DNA test results of 38 out of 50 World Population Matches being Hispanic. I wondered why my ancestry.com tree did not show a large number of Hispanic surnames to match the DNA test results. Instead the tree showed what I considered to be “European” surnames.

Over time I found evidence of my Iberian-Hispanic (European) ancestors from all four of my grandparents’ lines.

From my paternal grandmother:
(1) New Amsterdam 1600s - a probable Hispanic great…grandfather who married a probable Native American great…grandmother, both “Unknown.” Their great…granddaughter was named BLANDINA (Bouts) Viele b. 1686 Staten Island, Richmond NY. The name BLANDINA is known worldwide but it is a popular Hispanic given name.
(2) New Amsterdam 1600s - Great…grandparents JORIS JANSEN RAPALJE (fabric worker from a family of fabric weavers) b. 1604 Valienciennes, France - Spanish Netherlands, married CATALYNTJE JERONIMUS TRICO (also from a family of fabric weavers in the Spanish Netherlands). They were Sephardic Crypto-Jews, Huguenots, descendants of Iberian Jews. This is from https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/roosa/415/:
“…Abraham D. Lavender, Ph.D. is a member of the Society for Crypto-Judaic Studies, the Association for the Social Scientific Study of Jewry, and the Huguenot Society of South Carolina and author of many books. In “Searching for Crypto-Jews in France: From Spanish Jews to French Huguenots,” He believes Huguenots were actually Jews, because both Jews and Huguenots believed they were the direct descendants of the twelve tribes of ancient Israel…”

From my paternal grandfather:
(1) My great…grandmother MARY LAGO, was mother of George Fox, founder of the Quaker religion. She married Christopher Fox, an Ashkenazi Jew. Their second son John Fox was our ancestor. Mary Lago descended from Sephardic Jews from Spain.
(2) Some of my Grandpa’s mother’s descendants were MEXICAN. My cousin and I had Mexican World Population DNA Matches in common.
(3) Grandpa’s mother’s DAVIS ancestors were likely Sephardic Jews from Wales.

From my maternal grandmother:
(1) Her maiden name AITKEN was a Berber Jewish surname from Morocco. The Aitkens migrated over the centuries through Iberia and on to Scotland. My mother had 22 Iberian-Hispanic World Population matches, many likely came from her mother AITKEN.

From my maternal grandfather:
(1) His great…grandfather WILLIAM SHERRILL, SR., b. 1666, a weaver from Devon (a heavily Sephardic Jewish area of South England) emigrated to the Colonies (DE, PA) late 1600s. He became a fur trader, a common profession of Jewish immigrants to the Colonies.

By taking time to delve deeper into my four grandparents’ ancestors’ histories, including studying some European history, I was able to find my Hispanic ancestors. Chances are, there are more of them I may discover in the future. These ancestors, it seems, emigrated to the Colonies to escape being persecuted and for better lives.

Three books by Donald N. Yates and Elizabeth Caldwell Hirschman contributed the greatest to my understanding - WHEN SCOTLAND WAS JEWISH, JEWS AND MUSLIMS IN BRITISH COLONIAL AMERICA, and EARLY JEWS AND MUSLIMS IN ENGLAND AND WALES. A goodly number of my ancestors’ surnames were listed in these books.

Wonder what the world would be like if everyone had some understanding of the origins and struggles of their ancestors’ through the centuries. I consider knowing about my ancestors invaluable.

jakayj
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:46 pm

Re: Mexican/Central/So.American Great-grandparents

Postby jakayj » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:21 pm

Shari,

I'm glad you've taken the time and put in the effort to fill in the missing parts of your family tree. These give us a sense of who we come from, who they were in their own time and how they fit into the fabric of human history.

Jakay

Shari
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:54 pm

Re: Mexican/Central/So.American Great-grandparents

Postby Shari » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:59 pm

Thanks and I’m hoping my steps described above in finally finding my elusive Hispanic ancestors might give clues to others who are also wishing to locate their own Hispanic ancestors.


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